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  • Lorddougy
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Aug 23 2012 9:56 pm

[quote author=Shadowing link=topic=299.msg3111#msg3111 date=1345729050]<br />Still not even sure how maintaince cost would work. Since naqahdah, resources is planet base not a global stat. players could just keep there fleets in flight to advoid maintaince cost. <br /><br />I like how everyone keeps bringing up teal&#039;c destroying the Alkesh. The bomber was already damage with its shields down before teal&#039;c started attacking it with his death glider<br /><br />and the mother ship had its shields down when the bomber was attacking the mother ship.<br /><br />Gliders dont have shields, bombers do.<br /><br /><br />How about this idea. instead of food/maintance have another building that players level. this building controls the max amount of units the planet can have of military units.<br /><br />or maybe use guard posts for this. if a player has a low level of guard posts&nbsp; to how many military units is on the planet the then mlitary units that are not protected are higher subject to sabotage. So the building isnt a true military population max but if players go over the max then they are subject to agents destroying there military. This way guard posts become even more useful too. THey will also keep there orginal purpose also. Plus gives agents another mission. I can create a stat showing how many units you can keep on a planet safely. Fleet of ships that are seiging a planet can become vulnable to these agent attacks if they dont have say enough crucibles guarding or jaffa. Also give motherhips and bombers a unit capacity.<br /><br />I plan to make all pictures clickable where you can click on a picture and it will tell you about the building and even what the building is doing for the planet. I&#039;ll still keep planet stats too so you can see all at once. but this window will also show how guide information too what the unit does in the game and stuff. I want to do this so the game is easier to play for new players.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Your ideas are good but I disagree with them lol. <br /><br />Well the ones that let people build defense against motherships. Reason behind that, is coz it makes people spend more on defense than attack units AND it doesnt really matter how much defense they make, if someone is a lot more powerful than someone else and decides to send a mothership to them, then they cant do anything.<br /><br />I have another idea, how about you keep everything the same, except.. motherships can only go to worlds that have a pyramid on it... <br />Reasons: <br /><br />1) it means if you build a pyramid then you are at risk of being attacked on that world my motherships.<br />2) the only way to use motherships to defend with is to have all your worlds with pyramids, which leads to your worlds being at risk as well.<br /><br />It leads to people to 3 options:<br />1) they build no pyramids, they cant get attacked by motherships, but then they cant build any either.<br />2) they build 1 pyramid, means they they can build a mothership but cant defend with them either.<br />3) build pyramids on all your worlds, able to defend with them but at risk of attack.<br /><br />In game, in the 2 season, Heru&#039;ur attacked a protected world, but he was building landing platforms before he was sending his Hataks to the world and was only using his jaffa.<br /><br /><br />This idea is nice and simple to implement and means the small people cant be attacked by Hataks unless they want to risk &quot;playing with the big boys&quot;<br /><br />What you think?

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Aug 23 2012 10:09 pm

It&#039;s better Dougy.. but not really. I mean.. without somewhere to land are MS&#039;s incapable of orbital or even atmospheric bombardment? (Maybe a potential avenue for tech research?) <br /><br />We have seen in at least four episodes and a film hatak&#039;s capable of attacking from orbit without the need to land, look to Stargate Continuum, or Lost City for example. <br /><br />In one case, with Anubis super mothership he was able to bring it and sit it a mile or so above a large city. <br /><br />Perhaps the real step to take then is that a Hatak cannot take control of a world without a pyramid as &#039;rings&#039; are not enough to send an army down and transports to carry an army are too big for the MS hangar and need to come separately (which can be done within the confines of the current game mechanics). However it can still attack and on worlds with a Pyramid it can take control without losses. <br /><br />As for not being able to land MS&#039;s on planets without a pyramid &#039;for defence&#039;. I still don&#039;t quite agree as well.. can&#039;t they sit in orbit? Sitting in orbit can be limited if we had to supply the MS.. which is a completely different route. <br /><br /><br />PSS. I still think the MS strength should be put back to 600k/600k and the speeds of ships should be put back.. they&#039;ve become ridiculously slow. :P&nbsp;

  • Neimenljivi
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Aug 24 2012 9:46 am

Yes MSs do have to have another weakness against a unit. Perhaps one could build mines around the planet, much like the mines seen in the episode where Apophis and, I believe, Heru&#039;ur meet on a neutral ground and Tok&#039;ra with the help of SG-1 reprogram one of the mines to target one MS in the hopes of them killing of each-other?<br />That way this would be a purely defensive unit with a bonus against Ha&#039;taks (I&#039;d say against Al&#039;kesh as well because they are still very big, of course the amount of mines dictate the chances of success, but I believe in the episode 1 wasn&#039;t enough to destroy a MS, it was enough to damage it, so 3 should already have a chance to destroy MS, albeit a small chance, the chance increasing with the amount of mines?) as something is needed to defend against Ha&#039;taks otherwise they will continue to kill a huge amount of infantry without any losses, combined amount much exceeding the total cost to build a mothership (and I&#039;m talking about factors of 10, even 20 if MS owner is smart). <br />Sure, increased cost will help. But then again the first player to get a MS got it what, 1 month after the game went to alpha testing phase? So with increased cost it will take like 2 months, what then? What about after 6 months? The economy will be so big on all the worlds that it will take less than a day to gather stuff to build a Ha&#039;tak. So that&#039;s what people will build, Ha&#039;taks and Ha&#039;taks only, that&#039;s why every unit should have a disadvantage against another unit and an advantage against one other unit, possibly even another disadvantage (such as Ha&#039;taks and bombers destroying buildings on planet, for instance, and Ha&#039;tak also shooting on friendly forces if there is a ground battle going on already as it can&#039;t see from space whose units are whose). This will force people to build ALL types of units and not just one, which is essentially what I believe we all want.<br /><br />Shadowing - I&#039;m not talking of the time when he downed an Al&#039;kesh with a death glider, I&#039;m talking about the time when he completely destroyed it with, I believe, a SINGLE shot from staff cannon. Then he was trapped in the stargate as the Al&#039;kesh crashed into the stargate and the gate was destroyed before Teal&#039;c could get to the other side in SGC. That&#039;s what I&#039;m talking about.<br /><br />Ok, they could keep their fleets and units offworld indefinitely, but then they should breakdown eventually imho. So it&#039;s imperative that players either send stuff for maintenance via cargo ships, or risk their units failing (such as staff weapons being destroyed and not replaced, motherships not have their hyperdrive and eventually lose their shields, etc) and of course the longer one waits to bring stuff for maintenance, the greater the cost. <br /><br />Having a military cap you&#039;re suggesting won&#039;t do any good because Ha&#039;taks will count as one unit, much like one crucible. The difference in power, however, is huge and as I said, 6 months after the game goes live if there are no advantages &amp; disadvantages between units, everyone will build MSs only. 600 crucibles is nothing, how about 600 MSs? That&#039;s quite a force. So if you want to make such limits it has to be based on, not the amount of units but their combined power.<br /><br />~N

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Aug 24 2012 1:12 pm

[quote author=Neimenljivi link=topic=299.msg3129#msg3129 date=1345801593]<br />Yes MSs do have to have another weakness against a unit. Perhaps one could build mines around the planet, much like the mines seen in the episode where Apophis and, I believe, Heru&#039;ur meet on a neutral ground and Tok&#039;ra with the help of SG-1 reprogram one of the mines to target one MS in the hopes of them killing of each-other?<br />That way this would be a purely defensive unit with a bonus against Ha&#039;taks (I&#039;d say against Al&#039;kesh as well because they are still very big, of course the amount of mines dictate the chances of success, but I believe in the episode 1 wasn&#039;t enough to destroy a MS, it was enough to damage it, so 3 should already have a chance to destroy MS, albeit a small chance, the chance increasing with the amount of mines?) as something is needed to defend against Ha&#039;taks otherwise they will continue to kill a huge amount of infantry without any losses, combined amount much exceeding the total cost to build a mothership (and I&#039;m talking about factors of 10, even 20 if MS owner is smart). <br />Sure, increased cost will help. But then again the first player to get a MS got it what, 1 month after the game went to alpha testing phase? So with increased cost it will take like 2 months, what then? What about after 6 months? The economy will be so big on all the worlds that it will take less than a day to gather stuff to build a Ha&#039;tak. So that&#039;s what people will build, Ha&#039;taks and Ha&#039;taks only, that&#039;s why every unit should have a disadvantage against another unit and an advantage against one other unit, possibly even another disadvantage (such as Ha&#039;taks and bombers destroying buildings on planet, for instance, and Ha&#039;tak also shooting on friendly forces if there is a ground battle going on already as it can&#039;t see from space whose units are whose). This will force people to build ALL types of units and not just one, which is essentially what I believe we all want.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You&#039;re forgetting several key factors here about Alpha....<br />Firstly some &#039;hindering&#039; factors were brought in late. The staff cannon bug allowed a lot of people to jump their D level very high at the start meaning that they could acquire more worlds just as quickly. It also allowed at least one person to attack all unocupied worlds in one night, removing any obstacles on new worlds (which is going to change in the coming updates to random numbers and very high intelligence defences to make worlds harder to take). <br /><br />Secondly there is a smaller player pool, meaning any alliances are a bonus to growth and there will be less overall fighting. When beta rolls around and there are a few hundred it may well change. <br /><br />Training grounds have been nerfed more, meaning we now need to pay hefty prices to buy jaffa to take over worlds, not use our naturally growing crucibles. <br /><br />There was no notoriety in the past to make people go to war either. Now the most powerful system lords can take tax from others, something (if the field were more level) that would create far more conflict. <br /><br />Overall, the cost of the mothership is going to rise. It took people a month to buy the first one and multiple ones arose because of past &#039;luck&#039; and smart moves taking out other players who were stockpiling. <br /><br />Supplies are eventually going to come in which will further reduce the number of military units we can keep on one world (thereby making it very difficult to defend a mass of resources behind an iron wall). <br /><br />Motherships will likely end up costing slaves, which will in itself reduce the attraction of an MS. If an MS cost&#039;s 10,000 slaves it&#039;s really going to cut back into planet wide populations to build them en mass. Maybe years and years down the line, it&#039;s possible we&#039;ll be building hundreds of MS&#039;s.. but what do you expect? You can already lose an MS to numbers of 350k or more... <br /><br />So no... no I don&#039;t see why it needs a weakness unit at all. <br /><br />In the SG-1 episode hundreds of those mine impacts didn&#039;t destroy an MS. One was enough to simulate an attack from Heru&#039;ur forcing Apophis to think him an aggressor, I also hasten to add that those mines did not protect the world from destruction either and were a [u]SINGLE[/u] example of the fact. How many other worlds did we see with mines?&nbsp; ;) <br /><br />Its like you&#039;re looking for a cheap answer to &#039;balance&#039; lesser players against the big guys who fork out a fortune to buy an MS.. when it shouldn&#039;t be like that at all. If we pay the 1.2mill for the dam things.. why should we have to contend with lower players building a cheap answer to the MS? What&#039;s the point of it? How about it we dumped the 1.2mill into Jaffa or staff cannon? Are we going to be finding a weakness for them too then, when you are outnumbered and out gunned in that way?

  • Neimenljivi
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Aug 24 2012 2:12 pm

Yeah but then again it is the same with MS as it was with staff cannons, same thing just a different weapon. <br /><br />Taking over the worlds cost no Jaffa whatsoever so one can easily use a MS to kill of like 150k crucibles defending the planet, take no losses at all, then send 200 crucibles to take over a planet with a huge amount of slaves. How do I know it? Because it happened to me twice.<br /><br />If I understood you correctly then there is going to be a cost per cycle or 24h or whatever, to sustain armies - this is something I completely agree with and should be made asap. The better the unit, the bigger the cost.<br /><br />Yes you can lose a MS against 350k crucibles. But then again, you can attack every single world with like 100k crucibles, even more, and end up killing millions of crucibles with a SINGLE MS with NO cost at all to yourself. How is this fair? Basically the first one to get 3 MSs will win the game, much like it could be in alpha testing. It&#039;s the same as with staff cannon when those people basically won the game and if it weren&#039;t for the update that nerfed cannons, they would&#039;ve won. Surprising some of those people are using MS the same way they were able to use staff cannons before they were nerfed and everyone agreed staff cannons need to be nerfed because they could potentially kill an infinite amount of, back then, jaffas without any losses.&nbsp; It&#039;s the same with MSs now only that MSs cost more but can also attack a much bigger force and inflict much more damage.<br /><br />Every unit should have an advantage and a disadvantage toward other units, this is the only thing that will force people to build all types of units and not just one, and I think this is something we all want to see, don&#039;t we? How else do you propose that we force people to buy all types of units? Increasing cost is just a temporary fix because eventually productions per cycle are going to be HUGE, and MSs will be easily affordable. So unless it has a weakness against a unit, it will be the only unit people are going to buy. Now if it has a weakness against one other unit that has a weakness against another unit which has a weakness against yet another unit, that will be a totally different story as you will have to balance your army with all types of units.<br /><br />I believe it did cause the damage to Heru&#039;ur&#039;s MS although it wouldn&#039;t destroy it, of course. Why was that section chosen for negotiations? As Jacob/Selmak said, they couldn&#039;t fire on each-other without being destroyed themselves as the mines were drawn to energy bursts and would destroy the motherships. Sure, it&#039;s a single example of the mines, but so what?<br /><br />If you dumped 1,2 million (which is twice as much as it used to be when most of the MSs were procured, making it so that the chances of catching up are even slimmer) in crucibles or jaffas and attack a world with 100k crucibles or jaffas, you would have taken casualties and lose some naq&amp;resources. If you do it with a MS, however, you take no damage and can kill of quite a few of jaffas/crucibles or whatever.<br /><br />Also, I know it&#039;s a bit off topic, but I believe that like travel and anything else, battles should take time to unfold as well. The results shouldn&#039;t be instantaneous but should last hours, even days for huge planets during which period both players could be able to reinforce their units.<br /><br />And another thing, Shadowing said that fleets could become vulnerable against agents, while they are sieging a planet - well, they can&#039;t because you can&#039;t trade with a planet that is being sieged and currently that&#039;s the only way I know of that can send agents to another world.<br /><br />~N

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Aug 26 2012 7:15 pm

You&#039;re not looking at it correctly though. The MS isn&#039;t one type of unit... it&#039;s an army. The mothership &#039;unit&#039; is meant to represent a large ship carrying an army of thousands and a small fleet of death gliders. <br /><br />Nerfing it too much is stupid for the cost you pay for it. You&#039;re forgetting the struggle to save for an MS too, protecting those resources isn&#039;t a 1.2.3 step... for it&#039;s cost, for the effort to build it.. it should be powerful. What you&#039;re saying is that because you can&#039;t be arsed to manage your cargo ships and save up for one, or pour your resources into a large enough armarda of alkesh to defend against an MS, or at least deter one.. that you should be handed an easy answer on a silver plate. <br /><br />I&#039;m asking you how that&#039;s fair at all? What is the point of the game if the most powerful unit is worthless in the grand scheme of things? Yeah you lose more crucibles when you use them, but they&#039;re also incredibly easy to buy AND you can generate them naturally. A mothership takes time to save AND protect those resources whilst not destroying your economic advance, it also cost&#039;s an absolute bomb of resources. You also have to save up for and buy a ship yard AND a pyramid.&nbsp; <br /><br />I just don&#039;t understand your argument at all Neim. You&#039;re picking up on all of the advantages of having an MS but completely ignoring what it takes to acquire one. <br /><br />Building different types of units? Of course people are going to buy different types of units. It&#039;s strategically redundant to ignore the fact that the Stargate can be used to instantaneously travel to another world. Can an MS use the stargate? No. Can a massive army of jaffa, crucibles and staff cannon. Yes. I want to surprise attack person B, who has 500k resources sitting out..and they&#039;re on the other side of a much much bigger map to Alpha. Am I going to risk sending my MS and alerting them, or am I going to expend crucibles and jaffa to make a quick profit before they know what&#039;s hit them? <br /><br />You also just plainly ignore the change in circumstances having a larger player base and a larger map, and the inevitable supplies will bring as &#039;they&#039;ve not happened yet.. so lets act now and not think about the future&#039;. <br /><br />You have no argument at all... every time I read one of your post&#039;s all I can see is someone creatively complaining they&#039;ve lost the game and want to now destroy the winners victory because they can&#039;t find a way to do it themselves. <br /><br />The power of agents is outstandingly ridiculous for their cost. 800 agents... that&#039;s a cost of 24k resources and 40k naq.. that&#039;s ALL it takes to kill an MS that combined with its&#039; pyramid cost&#039;s 800k resources and over 1.2mill naq. How is that fair, at all? <br /><br />You want to complain about something.. complain about that. Complain about what the point of buying an MS at all is right now.. when I can spend a similar amount on alkesh and pwn you anyway and ignore those wonderful agents.

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