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- Progeekzy
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Feb 07 2014 10:50 am
There is a debate going on in chat right now.
Alot of people say the milkyway/Asgard replicators are completely different from the Ancient reps. The difference they say is, one is bugs one are human form.
Now, in SG1 season 6 epi 12 Unnatural Selection we see reps that have been trapped in a time dilation field that have turned human form. So to me, not the big of a dif. They say the other big diff is, of course, one set was made by Reese and the other by Ancients. We really dont know where Reese came from. She said she was made by her father. For all we know her father IS in face an Ancient.
My theory is this. 10 thousand years ago Ancients made reps to battle the wraith. Then ether they took reese with them back to the milky way when they left or one of them made her after they got there. Ether way, there is no big huge diff between the 2 sets of reps and they are pretty much one and the same.
Honestly, do you really think 1 person in 1 galaxy and a group of people in another made the EXACT same thing and theres no connection between the 2? Even in the SGA season 3 epis The Return they use Anti Replicator guns to kill them, weapons made by the Asgard with oneils help with Ancient knowledge.
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- Jokoci
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Feb 07 2014 11:00 am
Indeed i think there is "no" connection.
They have completely different origins and end up as a similar yet not completely equal technology.
The "ancient reps" were designed to be microscopic and to some extend designed to be humanoid.
The "milkyway reps" were designed as macroscopic blocks and developed into microscopic machienes.
The result is very similar in form, not shape.
And their intentions are somewhat different too.
Milkyway: eat eat eat, untill the humanoids come and use them for their personal vendettas.
Ancient: DESTROY THE WRAITH, ... but not yet. Oh hey we can kill ancients now. Time for payback. (a vendetta out of the replacator selfinterest)
The only real similarity is that they dont give a cha'tii about other beeings.
Oh and about your chances of some people doing the same thing, even though they didnt in this case.
Do you think that, if there is life out there, they will have weels ? Or is that unique to earth? How likely is it that they will know the concept of a car or a plane?
What i want to say is that, if there are cultures/races within the same reality they will come up with similar solutions to problems. Same as nature does.
These two replicators are analog, not homolog.
- Shade3130
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Feb 07 2014 7:36 pm
They are different.
but i believe the MW reps were based on the Asuran Reps.
Reese was made in MW. she was less advanced than the asurans.
i.e. she had a CD ROM drive incorporated into her neck lol
but her "physiology" was similar which is why the bug reps decided to make more like her. hence the MW human replicators (which were more durable to Tauri bullets).
Timeline: (as i believe it to be.)
Ancient made Asurans, destroyed them, went back to MW at Fall of Ancient-Wraith War.
A rogue Ancient scientist recreates Reese to "perfect" the replicators to defeat the Wraith based on what s/he know of the Asurans. then EPIC FAIL.
----(canon from here down based on sg1)
Father (might be an Ancient; Janus perhaps) made Reese. Reese made bug reps to be her toy. when the Villagers of her homeworld attack/threatened/or something like that she changed the program of the bug reps to be bodyguard/soldier making them seek to make more at whatever cost. the villager probably were harmed/killed, so Father "tricked" her to sleep and he sealed her away.
during this time the bug reps still existed (with their altered program: replicate at all cost). The may have encountered the Asgard in MW around time the Asgard moved to Ida galaxy. The bug reps probably followed somehow: by ship, gate, or dumb Asgard scientist studying them.
Bug reps harass Asgard to intial meeting of sg1 and o'neill.
sg1 finds Reese. she goes psycho and shot down.
sg1 give Reese body to Asgard to help solve bug replicator problem.
Asgard tamper with REese body to transmit signal to bug replicators for Trap set up in Halla.
bug rep get trapped in time-slowing dilation device. bug reps study Reese and decide she more advanced and perfect so made more.
they made: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (more human), 6th, 7th.
1st holds sg1 hostage.
sam tricks 5th into helping them escape.
5th trapped in dilation device.
they escape after some time. 5th now sole leader of Replicators.
you know rest.
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- Progeekzy
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Feb 08 2014 1:16 am
So by accident a android created replicators and it just so happens that the Lantians had the same Idea just on a smaller scale and actually for a function not just for amusement?
You really beleive that? Perhaps the Lantian reps did have a bug version that we never saw?
Both sets eventually end up as human form. Both human forms can be killed with the ARGs. Both sets do the hand in the forehead probe for information. Yet you really think theres no connection?
Reps are a bit more advanced and a bit more complex then a wheel. You are really sticking with theres no connection between the 2 sets?
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- Shade3130
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Feb 09 2014 1:33 am
no i meant their "structure" is different.
Ancient reps developed directly from free-floating nanites to human form.
MW reps are assumed to have been built by a Lantean from Atlantis.
Android (nanites similar to Asurans) makes bug-reps----> human reps (after studying Reese).
also, the form of the nanites is different.
Asurans Nanites is spiky: (http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080723135203/stargate/images/thumb/f/f8/AsuranNanites.jpg/300px-AsuranNanites.jpg)
MW rep Nanites are like this: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Endohedral_fullerene.png/110px-Endohedral_fullerene.png)
similar, but different.
i think the Lantean creator tried to recreate the Asurans from scratch- just a more dangerously flaw version.
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Feb 15 2014 6:50 pm
The point whether both replis have the same origin comes down to the point who build Reese, because as we know she made the bug like replis.
If we assume that the origin is the same it would mean that she was build by a Lantean. The question is why would someone do this. The only possible answer is, that it was a new attempt to build a weapon against the wraith.
I find it strange that the "new" weapon would be much less developed than the other version (which did not work). So for my perspective I say Reese was not build by a Lantean.
Now one might wonder why the MW replis developed the same bodies then the others. My answer: The MS replis advanced there design by themselves. We know that they assimilate new technology. After the call to the Asgards homeworld they "saw" what form would be possible for them to achieve and from there on they tried to build this new form and finally they developed the human form replis.
And Reese looks like a human being because her father probably was a humanoid as well (like 98% of the races SG-1 encountered).
So the conclusion: it is a coincident that both replis have the same "final form".
- Shade3130
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Feb 16 2014 3:36 pm
I don't believe in coincidence.
1) how would it be possible for a new lesser developed race to build nanite-based tech? remember the MW reps were built on a village based world. where would they get the idea if they weren't lanteans. only possible one is Ares, the goa'uld that inject nanites into the population of a planet in an attempt to stop/hinder aging. Even he didn't get that far in development due to botched experiment.
2. they were built by Reese as a toy. so of course they would be unaware of a greater form (human reps). The Pegasus reps went from nanite to human form directly. the only difference is Reese as intermediary phase- she never tried making more like herself, just toys with a basic code to replicate at all cost.
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Feb 16 2014 5:29 pm
I am aware that Reese build the replis as toys so I discussed mainly the creation of Reese.
And in regards to the "advanced" nanite-base tech, Reese was killed be O'Neill with a handgun (with bullets) and as we know pretty well human form replis cannot be killed with a normal gun. So the technology used was not as advanced as the other nanites.
And why couldn't there be another race which was researching nanites? The ancients where not the only intelligent race around.
- Shade3130
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Feb 16 2014 8:23 pm
I'm not saying it would be unlikely another race would research/manufacture nanites (as the Goa'uld Ares did.) I'm saying it is the chances of making a human replictor just by researching nanites is slim to none, unless they already knew about human replicators.
example:
Ares research anti-aging nanites that once infected o'neill. If human reps were possible created just by production of nanites, we would have heard/seen some around this time.
1) bug reps made 1st,2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th, etc. from having a template (Reese).
2) Weir-plicator made her 2nd human rep body (as well as other Asuran reps)because she knew how to (being one herself).
3) Mckay made FRANZ because he researched the human reps first hand.
slim chance another race would learn human rep tech without a template UNLESS the Ancient shared that knowledge, which considering its failure i highly doubt the would considering they tried to eradicate the Asurans completely.
The only other alternative:
an rogue Lantean creator (like Janus). remember there were many factions among the Ancients and they hid their research from each other until the final stage when they present it to the Council (most likely). This is an assumption i made based on the mini-drones episode in which Mckay discussed some Ancient used a secondary passcode device (the necklace) to prevent other Ancients from accessing the mini-drones tech. Obviously, it was revealed later to the other Ancients since drone tech is incorporated into mainstream Ancient tech in Pegasus. I believe human replicator tech/creation process was released to general population like this.
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Feb 16 2014 8:57 pm
Then I misunderstood you a little.
I now see where you are coming from but personally I think it is possible that another race which was researching nanits thought of the same thing. Because if they looked human (which I assume) it would be somewhat natural to build something looking like you. And if you have a technology like nanits at your disposal it would be obvious to try and use them to build such a machine. Sure trying does not guaranty that you succeed but with enough time it might work. And the fact that a Goa'uld did not build such a human repli is not such a strong argument because we know that they are far better at stealing other technology than developing them.
An example from our history for independent invention:
Newton and Leibniz invented independent from each other calculus.
Sure you can argue that they came from the same race and had similar knowledge but I think that every intelligent race, which has enough time to evolve and develop, will invent a similar concept just because of the need to describe the things you are observing.
So my view of this case only works if one accepts the theory that other races have the same motivations as we do (or the ancients), like trying to understand the universe, wanting to create something in your image and so on.
And personally I think this theory would at least apply to a certain percentage of races in the Stargate
- Progeekzy
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Mar 03 2014 11:29 pm
My point of view is this.
Both sets of reps, no matter how they started, ended up exactly the same.
human form. can be killed, even limited results, with the ARGs. And the hand in the forehead thing.
You are really going to tell me that 2 separate ,whatevers and i say whatevers because we dont know who made reese only it was her "father", made something that ultimately ended up as the same exact thing without knowing each other or had any interaction?
If you take another look at the epi menace, when we meet reese, the walls and her clothing, look at the design of her shirt thing, looks alot like ancients.
We know they left the pegasus galaxy 10 thousand years ago. It makes more sense to me that one of them found that planet made reese she went out of control. That would enplane alot. Unlike, nope 2 galaxies made the same thing.
I do agree that 2 people that never met could make the same thing. Like, cars. A way to get around. Travel long distances. but would both people make a ford torus? No, they would not. They would be very different from one another yet have the same goals but done different ways. Maybe one ran purly on steam or something.
The fact that both sets of reps ended up exactly the same way with the same unique abilities, hand in forehead killed bu ARGS, to me says they had the same origins.
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- Kaguli
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Mar 10 2014 4:22 am
They weren't exactly the same. The pegasus replicators could process organic matter as well as raw allows, and they never had a phase of evolution where they were large, block insectoid creatures.
The replicators from Reese became human-form when they analyzed the nanites in her body and then imitated her form using new cells made from neutronium.
To deny the possibility of the two technologies having separate origins is like saying scooters and skateboards were invented by the same person just because they have wheels.
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