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  • Neimenljivi
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Jul 13 2012 10:42 pm

Ok currently units cost a multiplier of the basic unit (now the crucibles) and they are stronger for the same multiplier. This seems pretty dull, at least to me, as it offers no real tactic.<br />So how about this - different units have different bonuses.<br /><br />Crucibles, for instance, are cannon fodders as they are cheapest and least strong. So due to this - if you are in greater numbers - more crucibles die and less Jaffas die. As they are the cheapest this is their only bonus, and their only disadvantage (they are more prone to dying than Jaffas).<br /><br />Jaffas, in my opinion, even if their cost is 20x bigger than the crucibles one, shouldn&#039;t be 20x as strong. Instead, perhaps, 10 or 15 max, however seeing how much they believe in their God and how hard they are willing to fought for that God - each Jaffa &quot;adds&quot; 20% of life to 3 other crucibles in battle - as they will fight harder under the leadership of Jaffas and will fight till they all die - while they would, if it weren&#039;t for Jaffas, run away when they saw they are defeated or will be defeated. So seeing how staff cannon has some sort of damage limiter and it&#039;s destroyed if it gets 50% damaged (from what I understood you, Shadowing), I suspect crucibles have the same limiter. The destruction of 100 crucibles alone would be at 50% or more, whereas if they were supported by 20 Jaffas, that would then give 60 crucibles 20% more &quot;life&quot;. The limit where an army is destroyed would be then based on average of these limits (so 60*1,2*50 + 40*1*50 = 5600 / 100 (as there&#039;s 100 crucibles) = 56%, instead of 50 which, I suspect, is the limiter now). Basically the formula to calculate the limiter of deaths of an army with Jaffas increasing the life, if you will, of crucibles is ((number of jaffas)*3 [i][or total number of crucibles, if number of jaffas*3 exceeds the number of crucibles sent][/i]*1,2 [i](if they added 20%)[/i] * 50 [i](if the limiter is currently 50)[/i]&nbsp; + ((number of all the crucibles sent) - (number of crucibles that are affected by Jaffas))*50)/(number of all crucibles sent)<br />Alternatively the Jaffas could also influence higher mortality rate on enemy&#039;s side, but the principle is the same. Or perhaps a jaffa could persuade 0,5 crucibles to join his side (meaning 10 jaffas would be able to persuade 5 crucibles to join their side in the battle).<br /><br /><br />Staff cannons - they, again, shouldn&#039;t be 1000x more expensive than crucibles and do 1000x more damage. What I recommend is that they are 500x as expensive and do 400x as much damage. However, they also add a 50% damage bonus to the Jaffas that use the staff cannon (presumably crucibles are dumb and can&#039;t use it, for whatever reason, and only Jaffas are permitted to use it). That would mean, say, 50 Jaffas that are required to use 1 cannon (to move it around, to help target, to replace the dead gunner in front of them) would do, while &quot;defending&quot; the cannon, the damage of 75 Jaffas. They also have a 30% damage bonus against death gliders.<br /><br />Agents - not really sure of their role, or power, in the game yet, so I can&#039;t say what could their bonus be. <br /><br />Death Gliders - they should be used for attacking as well. If someone has a mother ship - a MS could carry, for instance, 200 Death Gliders. While attacking with a MS, they could also attack with Death Glider.&nbsp; They are currently 3000x as expensive as crucibles and do 4000x more damage (only in defense at the moment). What I suggest is that the price multiplier would be bigger than the damage (perhaps 3000x bigger price for 2500x more damage), however they would have a bigger chance of destroying staff cannons (50% bigger chance of DG destroying a SC than a SC destroying SC), a 20% chance of destroying enemy building if a death glider is destroyed (suicide run, if you will, once it starts to go down) and 50% chance of killing up to 50 enemy ground troops (crucibles or jaffas) - a random factor determining the exact number, and have a 20% bonus power when fighting against Mid range bombers as it&#039;s more maneuverable.<br /><br />Mid range bombers cost 50 000 as much as crucibles and do 50 000 as much damage currently. I think they should cost as they do, however I believe their damage should be reduced - not by much, perhaps to 48 000. <br />There&#039;s a twist though - bombers can&#039;t distinguish foes from friends in a close ground combat, therefore it&#039;s a 25% chance that, if you use them when your ground troops are fighting as well, they will target your own units only, 25% chance that they will target enemy units only and 40 % chance that they will target both enemy and your own units with losses ranging from 70% of enemy units and 30% of your own units to 30% of enemy units and 70% of your own units.&nbsp; You&#039;re probably asking yourselves what is the other 10% chance - it&#039;s that they will destroy enemy buildings only.<br />However if you do decide you won&#039;t risk it and send the bombers in before you send any ground troops - there&#039;s a 50% chance that they will destroy buildings.<br />The mid range bombers have a 10% bonus power to attacking a mothership (similar reasons as those of death glider vs mid range bomber).<br /><br />The final unit, of course, the mothership, 600 000 times as expensive and 600 000 times as powerful as crucible.<br />I believe they should stay the same, as far as cost/power ratio goes.<br />However seeing how they are mostly used to target a planet from space they also have a negative side to all that power - they can&#039;t see units. Therefore they will always kill both enemy and your own troops, if there are any on the planet, and damage the infrastructure, destroy a building or two. How many losses are suffered on each side is based on a random factor, however one thing is for certain - if enemy loses a lot of units, so will you if you have many ground troops on the planet.. Due to their immense power I think they should be able to kill some slaves as well - but not many (remember - most of the slaves are in mines anyway). Perhaps a max of 10% of slaves could be killed by mothership, but ranging from 0 to 10% - a random factor.<br /><br />If your enemy has no air units and you do - your ground units gain a 5% damage bonus as their morale is increased by having air support on their disposal.<br /><br />Phew a long post.<br /><br />Anyway, I know this could completely change the attack system currently in place and that it would be a lot of work, but that way no single unit is overpowered as each unit has it&#039;s advantages and disadvantages - one is good for one thing, the other one is good for another thing. This would also ensure that, even later on, people would still use all types of military - not just Motherships, for instance (if they wanted to take a good planet they wouldn&#039;t want to destroy some of the buildings, they could risk sending in mid range bombers but without sending ground troops as well - they would again risk destroying buildings).<br /><br />Sorry for a long post, but I really think that this revised attack system could offer a HUGE strategic span and would be great when the game goes live :)<br /><br />~N

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Jul 14 2012 12:51 pm

Aye, this topic is already a source of much discussion between Shadowing and I, Neim. (I&#039;m your position btw)

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Jul 15 2012 2:35 pm

I&#039;m finishing up some foundation work at the moment and getting agents finished up. Then i&#039;ll come back and relook at making units more unique in the game and making the battle that takes place between two goa&#039;ulds more complex

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  • Neimenljivi
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Jul 15 2012 8:22 pm

Cool, I really hope you do implement some of the suggestions I gave as I believe they really should make a huge variety of tactics available and one won&#039;t be able to build the strongest unit and be done with it, but will have to balance the units :)<br /><br />~N

  • Alechit
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Jul 24 2012 3:50 am

i only recommend this: the death glider must attack!!<br />They are always in combat.&nbsp; 0 DAMAGE is not good. i replace that with at last 2.000 and low the defense to 3000.<br />Otherwise, you kill 0 units ... with a perfect good attacking ship...<br /><br /><br />Sorry for my latinamerican english&nbsp; :P<br /><br />Keep working, server look more cool everyday&nbsp; ::)

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Jul 24 2012 11:10 pm

Death Gliders do attack, they&#039;re part of the Mothership&#039;s attack value. They cannot attack by themselves as they do not have a hyperdrive so cannot travel between worlds and cannot fit through the stargate.

  • Neimenljivi
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Jul 25 2012 9:13 pm

I think that every unit should have a special bonus and a special disadvantage, be it a bonus and disadvantage against a specific unit or in general. And the ratio between their cost and their damage shouldn&#039;t be 1/1 because that basically means whoever gets Ha&#039;tak first wins the game, unless someone other has a huge amount of other units already. Anyway, it doesn&#039;t even make sense that crucibles are able to destroy a Ha&#039;tak..<br /><br />~N

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Jul 25 2012 11:29 pm

Why doesn&#039;t it make sense? Are they incapable of infiltrating it via ring platform and then storming it and crashing it?&nbsp; ;)<br /><br />What if the Hatak lands on a pyramid?&nbsp; ;D<br /><br />Suffice to say, I do believe certain units should have advantages against others..<br /><br />Death Gliders against Alkesh<br />Alkesh against Hatak and infantry (as it&#039;s a bomber)<br />Staff Cannon against everything other than Hatak (as we know one can take out an Alkesh a lone, and do some damage to infantry and alkesh afterall a death glider has two staff cannon on it).<br />Jaffa against Crucibles. <br />Crucibles against none... <br />Hatak are just pwnage for everything anyway.&nbsp;

  • Lorddougy
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Jul 26 2012 7:42 am

[quote author=Semper link=topic=222.msg2780#msg2780 date=1343258952]<br />Why doesn&#039;t it make sense? Are they incapable of infiltrating it via ring platform and then storming it and crashing it?&nbsp; ;)<br /><br />What if the Hatak lands on a pyramid?&nbsp; ;D<br /><br />Suffice to say, I do believe certain units should have advantages against others..<br /><br />Death Gliders against Alkesh<br />Alkesh against Hatak and infantry (as it&#039;s a bomber)<br />Staff Cannon against everything other than Hatak (as we know one can take out an Alkesh a lone, and do some damage to infantry and alkesh afterall a death glider has two staff cannon on it).<br />Jaffa against Crucibles. <br />Crucibles against none... <br />Hatak are just pwnage for everything anyway. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />The thing about the Alkesh vs the Hatak, that is a very misleading episode on who would win. The Alkesh was clocked and full armed and manned ship with surprise on their side. The Alkesh had only 5 people on it and didnt have its shields or weapons up. <br />If it was properly manned I am sure it would of kicked the arse of the Alkesh.<br /><br />I do think the Hatak should have a weakness, and I think it should be jaffa.<br />[i]Reason[/i] We have seen several times and even in the show you hear at the system lord meeting of Hatak boarding other Hatak. So I think when Hatak are in battle, the number of jaffa attached to the Hatak should have a strong influence in who will win, ie ppl boarding the other hatak. I wouldnt go as far as taking over the other Hatak as that could get stupid

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Jul 27 2012 4:40 am

I dont think the Ha&#039;tak had their shields up . i&#039;ll go watch the episode to check.<br /><br />mother ships dont keep there shields on 24/7. <br /><br /><br />EDIT: ya i just looked at the episode. The mother ships shields were completly down. The bomber did like 4 bombs before teal&#039;c tried to put the shields up and the shields were not working by the time he tried. So really we have no idea how many bombers it would take to take down a Ha&#039;tak

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  • Druskov
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Jul 27 2012 5:08 pm

from what I have seen them capable of doing its like if you took 10 gliders put them into one massive ship thats bout the dmg you would get from al&#039;kesh however thats eyeballing it, and thats mostly guesswork and opinion : / sadly not many episodes show you what their ships really are capable of except their super super weapons they always go waving around like they have something to compensate for... As for hatak we know they weren&#039;t very superior ships until anubis showed up so we can chalk up compared to other spacefaring races mediocre shields meh weapons and small numbers of the ships, I mean shoot for most part we only really saw massive fleets in one movie and maybe few episodes I think the largest fleet I saw was in sg:c when baal got every system lord with him/killed he raised such a large fleet and that took him hundreds if not a thousand years to do so (some may say only 60-70 years since he was first shown destroying the boat with sg in it, however who says thats the first thing he did :P) <br /><br />Now from what I know usually that hataks were generally like pimp limos for goa&#039;ulds they all generally had 1 and they usually (if they had one available that is) flew to the planet in it to show their force, and dominance over the local populace. However some just stayed to sg travel since it was instant.<br /><br />Now what we always did see in the series and movies was one how good gliders were and how well trained jaffa could be or not so well trained. Grunts eh they weren&#039;t portrayed as tough guys with guns more like some new recruit who barely had any training, because there were alot of good leaders who basically had this godly skill level however they got the same training &gt;.&gt; only people who showed me any real skill were sodan. I didn&#039;t actually see any real crucibles that much in the series, in the original movie yes and the sg1 episode rules of engagement, many of those troops there weren&#039;t jaffa but humans soooo im guessing crucibles.<br /><br />However I feel like sg has put a western ideal of how our previous wars went into the enemy, there is alot of them but however they are trained less and mass produce compared to trained alot and valued members, now if they follow how teal&#039;c described them and other things and didn&#039;t , well imo at least, weaken them for the series it would be like if the cold war actually happened, both sides having large armies of very highly trained soldier who know one thing kill the other before he kills you. So needless to say it would end being well uneven throughout the series we would be far to few and well they would outnumber us since there well is alot more of them :P<br /><br /><br />Don&#039;t take these as facts (some can be facts) most of what I said is pure opinion and what I have witnessed in the series. :D

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Jul 27 2012 6:58 pm

Were the Prometheus&#039; shields not retrofitted from a Hatak, or an Alkesh? An Alkesh wooped the hell of of the Prometheus, very nearly on a couple occasions.

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